The Movie

Living in a Body

The Movie

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The Movie

Episode 70 -- Hal and Elanor, Part 2

Hal Walker

and

Elanor Nadorff

Oct 28, 2023

Transcript

No transcript...

Hi. Welcome to “Living in a Body.” Today’s episode is a conversation between Elanor Nadorff and me. Elanor is making a documentary film about my life. Please click the PLAY button above to hear the podcast version of this publication.

The Movie

Hal
Hi, I'm Hal, and this is the Living in a Body podcast. Thanks so much for being here.

Today is episode 70, and it's a conversation between myself and my friend Elanor Nadorff.

Hi, Elanor.

Elanor
Hi everyone.

Hal
Hey! I have gotten the wonderful pleasure, the wonderful blessing and pleasure of spending the last several days with Elanor.

We're making a movie.

Elanor
We already made a movie.

Hal
We made a movie.

Elanor
We shot all of it.

Hal
We shot all of it. Now Elanor's got to do the hard work of piecing it all together.

Elanor
Yeah. It'll be fun.

Hal
Elanor, what's the movie going to be called?

Elanor
The movie is called Living in a Body.

Hal
Yeah, Living in a Body.

Elanor
So Hal, do you want to tell them just what we've been doing for the past five days?

Hal
Sure.

We'll do a video shoot for 12 minutes and then I'll rest for 12 minutes, and then we do another video shoot, and we keep going to different parts of the house. We keep coming up with different conversations to have. You know, we keep sharing, we're collaborating on this, so Elanor will have an idea of something she'd like to ask me or I'll have an idea of something I'd like to say. She's been filming me at the kitchen table, in the living room, in my bedroom.

We went to the...

Elanor
Outside.

Hal
Outside, at the grocery store, at the Kent Natural Foods Co-op. It's been fun. I gotta be honest, I'm dreading for when she leaves.

Elanor
I'm dreading leaving too a little bit. I feel like I forgot what my life was like before I came here. I've been in this like black hole, and I don't know how to get out.

Hal
Could we come up with a different metaphor than black hole?

Elanor
A black hole is not… I traverse to a different galaxy.

Hal
Yeah, a different galaxy. I kind of feel that way too. It makes a big difference to have a young, talented, vibrant artist around… filmmaker.

I mean, that's what I was joking last week. I need a live-in filmmaker so I can constantly, my mind can always be… I have, there are no shortage of ideas, let's put it that way, and there are many more films to be made. I just need a live-in filmmaker.

Elanor
It helps when the live-in filmmaker does the dishes sometimes too.

Hal
And makes the salads.

Elanor
So I guess I wanted to tell them a little bit of the background of how we came to work together.

Hal
Yeah, that'd be great.

Elanor
So my dad is named Georg, and he's Hal's childhood best friend, and Hal actually wrote a Substack about their relationship I think called “Hal and George.”

Hal
”Hal and Georg.”

Elanor
So I'm Georg's daughter and I'm two or three years younger than your daughter.

Hal
Yeah.

Elanor
I'm 23, and I've known Hal for my whole life. We saw each other probably less than once a year growing up because my grandparents lived in Ohio so we would stop by Hal's to visit on the way to visit my grandparents.

But, I mean, I was obviously a little kid and we didn't get to spend much time together. I mean, I don't think we've ever spent time together, just me and you, in my whole life before I came here. So, it's been really fun to get to know you now that I'm an adult and we can kind of, you know, have an adult friendship.

Hal
Right.

Elanor
And it's been nice to get to know you. Our families are always around, so it's like we don't get to have one-on-one conversations.

Hal
One thing I really appreciate about you is I often eat my meals by my, I usually almost always eat my meals by myself. And you have, every time I have a meal, even though you're not necessarily eating, you come right up to the table and you sit down and you start looking me right in the eyes.

Elanor
I do stare at you while you're eating.

Hal
You're inviting conversation, you're inviting connection, and I appreciate the eye contact. You're not someone who is timid with your eye contact. You're sort of like wanting to engage.

Elanor
You know I know you and you're a chill guy and you always have been even before this onset of your illness becoming more severe, but I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I feel like with your illness you don't have a big capacity for talking all the time. You know, it kind of comes and goes, so when we're eating together, you know, if I was eating with someone else, I might be having this pressure to make conversation, to be friendly, but I don't feel that with you. And I know it's not what you want all the time, but I want you to know that, you know, I'm there with you in that moment.

Hal
I appreciate it.

Elanor
And I also like that we can sit in comfortable silence together. I want to make that clear that the silence is very comfortable.

Hal
Yeah, I like that too. That's excellent.

So what else is the precursor to the film?

Elanor
So the way the film came about is Hal, I live in upstate New York with my parents, and Hal was going to visit Hallie in New York City in March or April of this year, and he stopped by my parents' house on the way back, and you were kind of in rough shape, I would say.

Hal
I was in pretty rough shape at that time, yeah.

Elanor
And I'm sure the traveling didn't help. But I got to see you, and as soon as Hal came to my house, my dad said, “Oh my God, Elanor has been making YouTube videos. You have to see them.”

And I was like, “why are you telling him about my videos?”

Like, I don't want, you know, the attention on me. So you were interested in seeing my videos. So you and my parents watched my YouTube videos on our huge TV, and I left the room because I don't like watching my own stuff. And I mean, I didn't really expect you to have a reaction to them.

Hal
But I had a strong reaction.

Elanor
But you had a very strong reaction. So why don't you say what your reaction was?

Hal
Well, I don't remember what we watched. I just remember having a very strong reaction, like, wow, I didn't know this is what I was going to be watching. This is cool. I love this. I love the… like this woman is obviously a talented filmmaker and it wasn't just, you know, when you think of YouTube, I don't know what comes to your mind, but in my mind, really what Elanor is doing is some of the finest YouTube, like that's the really the art, the art of YouTube is what you're doing.

I watch mostly Go tutorials and, uh, I don't watch a whole lot of the vlogging. But your stuff is so much more than vlogging, you're telling a story and you're creating a film and you guys gotta go check them out, they're excellent.

Elanor
Yeah, my goal for my videos, I wouldn't call them vlogs either, but I guess that's the closest word to describe them, but my goal is to make a film about myself. I make my YouTube videos in the same way I'm making this film about Hal except I'm the subject and it's about something specific about my life. So I would describe them like a film.

But yeah, definitely not common, and I don't really watch any videos like that on YouTube. I watch like… extreme camping videos, music videos, cooking videos, weird stuff.

Hal
Well, we got home, well while I was there Cameron was my driver and Elanor recorded Cameron and I playing the Rav drums, and they have a beautiful house, and we sat in the living room and made some music, and she recorded it, and the next video that came out on Elanor's channel, I heard my music, and it was so exciting “Hey that's me, I hear that.”

Elanor
Yeah I used that recording of Hal at the end of my next video, and I love that part of the video, and I actually used a picture of you in the part where the drums play, a picture of you singing at my parents' wedding. But yeah, that sequence of that film makes me cry because of your voice, and it's of Hal singing a hymn.

Hal
Oh yeah. What were we singing, “Come Thou Fount?”

Elanor
Yeah.

Hal
Oh right. So then what happened? How did we come up with this idea to make this movie?

Elanor
So I was hiding out in my room because I was kind of embarrassed, and you came up to my room upstairs, my bedroom, before you were going to go to bed and you said, “I just love your films and I would love for you to make a film about me.”

And I said all my ideas for the film about you, I think there on the spot. And you were like, what the hell? Like I could just tell you were like, I don't even know what she just said.

Hal
I don't remember that part.

Elanor
Because I just summed up the main ideas of the film. Because I've known you for so long. I know your family. I'm familiar with your life, I think, in a way that you can't be if I didn't know that and have that deep connection with you.

Hal
Well, then several months passed, and I think at one point I got a text from you or something saying, “Hal, I'm ready to move forward on this. Can I come to your house and stay for a few days and make this movie happen?”

Elanor
Yeah, over the summer, you know, I wasn't sure what kind of shape Hal was in, so my original idea was to use your recordings of your Substack to kind of make a script of the film and use your podcast as kind of a voiceover and then film stuff to make the film. So I had done that over the summer. I read all of your… listened and read to all of your essays and picked the best parts or the parts that I found the most compelling and assembled them into a script.

“Script” in loose quotes. I think the script is 30 pages long.

Hal
Wow. But then you got here and the whole plan changed.

Elanor
So when I got here I realized, I would say you're kind of in rough shape but you have, I underestimated the strength of your creative spirit. I mean you were and are so just like ready to do it and had a lot of ideas and wanted to be on camera and talk to the camera. I wasn't expecting that.

Hal
Yeah, when you showed up, I was sitting on the front porch, hunched over, very ill and very weak, and I've had several rough days, but we're doing this 12 minutes at a time, 12 minutes of rest. I have a passion to tell my story and I have a passion for the creative spirit, and when the creative spirit moves, there's not much that can hold me back. But I've definitely been held back. I mean, imagine if I wasn't sick, this whole thing wouldn't be happening.

Elanor
Yeah.

Hal
You know, you were just earlier tonight saying this content, this life of being a content creator is kind of an illness, you said, or a disease.

Elanor
Yeah, I just said that as I was setting up my camera to film what we're saying right now for my YouTube channel.

Hal
Do you really believe that or was that just a passing thought?

Elanor
No, I do believe that.

Hal
You said, why can't we just live in anonymity?

Elanor
Yeah, I mean, I just think it's different when you're a musician because you're a performer and you want to be in front of the audience. I don't want to be in front of an audience.

I mean, the filmmakers in the 70s weren't, didn’t have phones to film stuff on and then post it to everyone to see. That’s not how it worked until ten years ago.

Hal
Yeah this is a new thing, the the life of a content creator.

Elanor
Yeah, I mean, I really take issue with the word content. For me specifically, I don't, I'm not making content, I'm making art. I'm not making something that's trying to sell you something or to just be consumed and discarded.

Hal
No, you're not.

Elanor
So… the speed of our consumption is very concerning to me, and sort of making making yourself be the center of your art I think is kind of a perverse instinct which I am afflicted with as are you.

Hal
Thank you for that.

Well then Elanor showed up and the magic started happening. We started having all these magical moments and the thing has unfolded very beautifully. It has unfolded very beautifully over the course of about five days, and all these little cameo appearances. We went to Giant Eagle and we ran into my friend Saunus, and Elanor recorded Saunus and I singing “This Little Light of Mine” in harmony in a Giant Eagle aisle.

Elanor
Yeah, in the pet food aisle.

Hal
And I was in my electric, you know, grocery store cart and then, you know, at the perfect moment my mom showed up at the house and my mom and I sang “Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing” together.

Elanor
Yeah, that was beautiful.

You know, I know Hal is someone who creates community wherever he goes and creates it even from his bedroom. I mean, you are involved in so many groups still and it's just, you can't even conceptualize it until you're around him. I mean, I've never met anyone like that. And I was surprised, I know that you, you're so invested in your community here in Kent and so many people know you. But I mean, the amount of people who just come into your house, they just walk in the door, and then it's like, you visit with them and they ask how you're doing and you leave and they leave. I mean, that's a rare thing, and it was really beautiful to watch.

So Hal, one question I wanted to ask you is, how do you feel about putting this film out into the world?

Hal
I am so excited. I feel like, especially last night, you said, Hal, this is going to be really good. And when you said that, I was like, gosh, if Elanor thinks it's going to be good, it's probably going to be good. So I'm excited.

And today we came up with this idea. We only came up with this just several hours ago, but what if at the same time that the film is released called Living in a Body, I also release a book called Living in a Body, which is a compilation of all these episodes of Living in a Body. So I'm excited about the whole concept of Living in a Body as a film and as a book.

So I'm, but I'm very, I mean I've been very ill this morning. I was, I sound all lively and full of vitality but this morning I was plastered to the bed thinking, wanting to die and having a hard time breathing, and it's just so intense the way this illness swells, and those swells, it's very scary. I get very afraid, and right now, you know, it's more in the distance because I'm thinking about something else, but it's definitely looming… anyway.

Elanor
We had this idea of this book along with the film and also an album of the soundtrack of the film, whatever songs I end up using in the film.

Hal
All my old songs, unreleased songs. I've got many, many songs that never got released on the internet. They're all on self-burned CDs over the years that I sold, but they're not available on the internet, so we might…

Elanor
A lot of those are going to end up, I mean, you would burn CDs for my parents and give them to us and we would listen to them on the drive to Ohio, so a lot of those songs are like ancient memories for me that I grew up listening to, and I have my own personal favorites of your songs. So a lot of those are definitely going to end up in the film, and some that are totally new to me that I love.

Hal
So to answer your question, I'm really excited. I'm wondering where the local viewing should happen, whether it be at the Kent stage or maybe the UU Church.

Elanor
The local viewing is going to be the party of the century. It's going to be the Kent Bicentennial the re-up.

Hal
Hopefully I'll be there… I'll be able to attend. Hopefully I'll be well enough to attend.

Elanor
What were your highs and lows during filming?

Hal
Hmm, what were my highs and lows?

I loved that the day of making music or I loved that one day we… I was playing the handpan on the front porch and I was really grooving on it, and then one day we were on the back porch, and I was playing some instruments and… like I got out my concertina and my harmonica, and I hadn't played that combination in a long time That was one of the highs, and telling my addiction story. We started with that. I think that was the first.

Elanor
Yeah, that was the first.

Hal
Elanor showed up and said, Hal, there are some questions I have off the record. You talk about being an addict in your Substack, but what are you actually talking about, and then I told her my whole addiction story, which we're not going to get into right now.

Elanor
No, but some clarification on that is in the film.

Hal
Yeah, I clarified some things about that.

What was the low point? You said what was the low point? The low point was probably at one point I was feeling so unwell that I wanted to tell the story. I had this story in mind I wanted to tell, but I was so physically unwell that I didn't feel like I could tell it. That was painful. But I think eventually it got told somehow.

Elanor
Yeah, you fought through a lot of those low points.

Hal
The low point also was, I mean, yesterday I had one of the worst days of my life. It was very, I was very ill all day, unrelenting illness. Were we taking the day off yesterday or did we record a lot yesterday?

Elanor
I mean, you always say, like, I got to take it easy and then we end up filming stuff. But I think a lot of the low points in the film are from yesterday.

Hal
Yeah. Some of the crying scenes.

Elanor
Yeah. So what was it like to work with me as a director? If you could sum it up.

Hal
It was fun… It was fun. You asked such good questions. I trust you. I felt like I could be honest. Having you there is so much easier than me telling the story without you there. Yeah, and I think you and I are on the same, similar wavelength. Like we have a similar level of intelligence and a similar level of interest in words.

Elanor
Yeah, and creative things.

Hal
And creative things. So I think there's been a nice flow between us.

Elanor
I think we also have a similar, like I would describe myself as shy, but I can be quite outgoing, but I'm not super talkative, I kind of choose when I want to talk and when I don’t want to talk, and I feel like you’re like that too.

Hal
You’re right

Elanor
So it’s comfortable for us to be around each other.

I wanted to say what it was like for me to work with Hal as a subject and I just wanted to say that, you know, Hal obviously is a performer, but I feel like a lot of people who just know you from TikTok maybe haven't seen your public speaking abilities, you singing your own songs that you've written, some other aspects of you being a performer, and just all those qualities really translate into how you are on camera.

You're great on camera. You're super grounded and poised and you're really good at speaking eloquently. You have such a beautiful speaking voice. You don't stutter. You can be kind of thinking of what you're trying to say, but be still really eloquent at the same time. So I didn't have to do a lot of coaching you of like, say this differently or let's redo that. We didn't do any of that. So that made my job a lot easier.

Hal
It happened very organically, and it happened very magically, and I didn't know what to expect when Elanor showed up, but the stories just started flowing, and the camera got turned on, and we had several nice setups in the house. I've got some portable lights that we moved around, and I can't wait for you guys to see it.

Elanor
Yeah, that's the other thing I wanted to say is, you know, Hal's a filmmaker too. I mean, you've been making your own stuff for like over a decade now. So he has awesome stuff here. And I mean, there's one part that I filmed where you're actually setting up the lights for your own interview, which I love. So yeah, getting to put our heads together on that was great.

Okay, so last question. What do you hope people take away from the film?

Hal
One thing I don't hope they take away is that I have a tragic life. Like there are times in the darker moments of the film where there's a certain amount of tragedy to this story.

Elanor
Yeah, there is.

Hal
And I don't want people to go away feeling like it's tragic, but I really love your idea for the ending. I won't tell people that, but I love your idea for the ending that is very hopeful, full of beauty, and I can't wait to see that.

What I hope people get away is they… you know I guess I'll just say that this is my story, and it's a true story and it is a human story, and there are lots of feelings in this story, so I hope you have feelings and I hope you see some of your own story in this story.

Elanor
One of my views of the film is about how our lives can be taken away from us, and in your case, it's your illness that takes away so much of what you want to do with your life. But I think it's kind of a universal thing that everyone experiences at some point. You know, people have tragic events or addiction or they're living in a war-torn country. I mean all kinds of things that can take away years of someone's life, so the question of how do you cope with that I think is what this film ruminates on, and I think that people will be able to see themselves in your story because of that.

Hal
You know, one other thing I'll add is I have some fear because I, when a camera is, I come alive with a camera, you know, my face comes alive, my eyes come alive, my voice comes alive, and I can, I can present as a totally healthy person. But what I also hope to get across in this film is the seriousness of this illness, ME-CFS, and what a deeply debilitating illness it is. And I'm afraid that we won't get that because, you know, put a camera on me and suddenly I look just like a normal guy.

Elanor
Yeah, I think that'll be, I do think we have some moments where you just couldn't put it on for the camera, so that is there, but I think that'll be a challenge in the edit for sure, and I want to do justice to what you're going through right now.

Hal
So Elanor is leaving tomorrow. She's going back to her home in upstate New York, and I just want to say, Elanor, it has been a wonderful blessing to have you here. Thank you so much for this project. This has brought a lot of light to my life and I can't wait to watch it continue to unfold.

Elanor
Well, I have loved getting to know you better and becoming friends. I think we're lifelong friends.

Hal
Yay. Me too.

Elanor
Which is great, and I am so excited to come back and visit. And the other thing I wanted to say is how thankful I am to you for trusting me to do this with you. You know, my art is dependent on other people. You know, I'm dependent on having a subject. I couldn't… I can't just create this by myself. So, I mean, you're the kind of subject that filmmakers dream about in so many ways. So I just feel so grateful that our paths crossed, and I also feel grateful for my father for having this lifelong friendship with you and our families being friends and maintaining that connection through good times and bad over the past 50 years.

Hal
Yeah, I used to call George on the telephone, the rotary telephone, 673-5015 is the first number that comes to mind. That might not be it, but then his mom would answer and I'd say, “Hello, may I speak with Georg? Georg, can you go out and play?”

We lived right next door to each other. It was a beautiful friendship for a few years there. Go listen to Hal and George. It's a good episode, way back several months ago.

Elanor
Yeah, that's a great episode.

Hal
All right, Elanor, we better wrap it up.

Elanor
Let's wrap it up.

Hal
Everybody, go out there and live in your body. Go live in that body of yours. Don't forget that you're alive in a body. Enjoy it. Enjoy it and connect with each other. Say prayers for each other. Love each other. Alright?

Elanor
Bye.

Hal
Bye!